Sunday, January 08, 2006


On the link I deleted (see post below) I had left a message. To see the response I checked and what caught my eye was a post by the blogger. It claims to make some really serious quotes. As one who likes to confirm before throwing my 2 cents in I tried to do just that.
1st the claim - "The following exchange is between John Yoo, author of the infamous legal memo justifying Presidential powers to torture US captives around the world and Doug Cassel, long time human rights legal scholar and professor at Notre Dame. It took place in Chicago on December and proves, once again, that the US, with the assistance of people like Yoo, is a rogue state:

"If the president deems that he's got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person's child, there is no law that can stop him?"

Yoo: "No treaty"

Cassel: "Also no law by Congress - that is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo..."

Yoo: "I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that."

For more information read here"(here being a link).

So I clicked and that lead to Information Clearing House page. The report here seemed sketchy because of a lack of date for this debate .
I then clicked the source ICH sited and found that it lead to some real REDS.
They provided a link to their article that stated "John Yoo, author of the infamous legal memo justifying Presidential powers to torture US captives around the world, couldn't escape torture victims (World Can't Wait activists) when he appeared in Chicago on Dec. 1. in a debate with Doug Cassel, long time human rights legal scholar and professor at Notre Dame." It also on the same page claims to have been recorded by a one "Philip Watts".

Hmmm. Ok. Something to check on. Place and Date. Sooo I did a search on Doug Cassel which lead me to an audio page of The Columbia Obsevatory which claims to be "A Resource Center of Chicagoans for a Peaceful Colombia". Allrighty then.

An audio of Doug Cassell is given for a July 13th 2005 presentation. They describe Doug Cassel as a "Director of Northwestern University's Center for International Human Rights."
Well he might of moved on to Notre Dame since then. However Notre Dame is in Indiana and Northwestern is in Illinois and the debate was supposedly in Chicago. Could be.

The audio source they give is Worldview. Their own description is "Chicago Public Radio's global affairs program features in-depth conversations about international issues and their local impact. From Nobel Peace Prize winners to Nicaraguan sweatshop workers, Worldview highlights a range of voices that go beyond the headlines."

I checked their descriptions and audio for individual segments which led me to their calendar and I could not find a Dec. 1st 2005 segment with Doug Cassell. There is 3 segments for that date Global Activism: U.S. Women Host House Parties for Iraqi Women, Fighting TB and HIV in China and Rwandan Women Mark World AIDS Day.

They also have a list of Doug Cassel commentaries. On that page they describe Doug Cassell as a
director of the Center for Civil and Human Rights at the University of Notre Dame Law School. Maybe 2 hats? Or Change of Jobs? What they do not have is any commentary on a debate with John Yoo By Doug Cassel for any date.

Maybe it is on another program on Chicago Public Radio. Well there was a segment on "Eight Forty Eight" dated Dec.1st 2005 entitled "The Injustice of Torture by Al Gini Resident Philosopher".
But no Cassell vs. Yoo.

So I mated the names and did a search and there was a debate between the two. At the Chicago Council on Foriegn Relations. On Dec1st 2005. All other searches either had no referances or they all led back to the Reds. I could not find any corrobarating source. I did find a corrobarating source that Doug Cassel is at Notre Dame and used to be at Northwestern.

How about someone who also claims to have been there? Well I found a woman who does.
She does not mention any testicle comments. However look at the bottom two comments on the thread on her blog.

Do I believe the quotes in question are correct? I don't know. I tend to think not. All claims lead back round to the Reds. I will call The Chicago Office of The CFR and see if they have a transcript.
I will not however post something like a quote from someone okaying crushing a childs testicles unless I can confirm it. Maybe I am wrong, but that's just me. I do feel comfirmed on deleting the "Friendy" link.

Well it has been a tiring trail. It is almost 1am and I got to get Lil Joe to his 1st day of day care.
At 8am. I know it will be a big and trying change. But I think I'll be able to handle it. I'll try my bestest to hold the tears back till I get back in the car.

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